(Disclaimer: this post may generate controversy. This post will “turn some people off”. This post will cause some followers to unhinge and never follow this blog again.
However, there is nothing in this life more important to God than the saving of the soul. And this blog was birthed by the probing and pricking of God’s Holy Spirit for this blogger to come out of the proverbial “closet”, let his light shine and not be ashamed of his Savior. And this was all confirmed from a church pulpit on one particular Sunday morning over seven years ago).
So, before you turn off and travel on I ask you to hear out what is written here because this post raises one question that has eternal significance. That can be a pretty rash and arrogant statement to make, but when you consider we will all spend eternity in one place or the other we must make sure we get things right. Don’t you agree?
Depending on which “camp” or side of the Oneness or Trinity discussion you find yourself your answer to this one question will be starkly different. And this question IS perhaps one of the most important questions will ever answer about your Christian faith, the God you serve and about the identity of Jesus Christ.
Before we get into that question, let’s get back to the subject of Oneness and Trinity. Here are some facts differentiating the two:
- Trinity is not mentioned, nor the word used in the Bible.
- The word “Trinity” entered the stage of church history at the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD with the doctrine officially enacted at the Council of Constantinople in 381 AD.
- Judaism is a belief based on monotheism (Israel is a nation of people who believe God is One; not three, two or many, one and only one)
- The Apostles believed in the Oneness of God.
- The early Apostolic Church was comprised of Oneness believers.
The treasured “Shema” spoken by the Jewish believer is immersed in oneness theology:
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: Deuteronomy 6:4
So What Is The One Question?
The one question referred to earlier is this:
Who died on the cross? Who really bled, agonized, and was shamed on Calvary’s cross?
If you are a believer in the Trinity you will say it was God’s Son, the second person of the Trinity, whom the Father “sent” to die for the sins of all mankind. Jesus Christ was one of three persons, a proxy if you will, sent to save souls from the curse of sin.
A Oneness believer will answer the question differently. A Oneness believer will not say Jesus Christ is one person of three, a proxy, or God’s perfect, yet detached sacrifice for sin. A Oneness believer will say Jesus Christ is the manifestation of the One Holy God enrobed in flesh, the physical manifestation of the true, living God.
Oneness believers see God himself in human flesh at Calvary. The eternal Spirit of the living God, the same spirit infused in the body of Jesus (Rom. 8:11), the same Spirit that created the heavens, earth, seas, sun, moon, stars, animals, birds, vegetation, flowers, the atomic structures of oxygen, carbon, fluorine, gold and silver hung on Calvary’s cross.
It was Him. The Creator Himself. He felt the agony, pain, shame, rejection and humiliation.
The Litmus Test for False Doctrine
Many people are leery of beliefs contrasting their own. We naturally question the unfamiliar or ideas that clash with what we’ve grown to learn from our ancestry or family traditions. False doctrine pervades the landscape and even Jesus and the apostles warned of its prevalence in the last days (Luke 21:8, Mat 7:15, Acts 20:29, II Cor 11:14, II Tim 4:3, II John 1:10)
However, there is a test to identify false doctrine. It is a simple test, but highly accurate. It is this:
Within your belief system or religious persuasion can Jesus Christ be exalted to a position he is not worthy to occupy?
If you answer “yes” to that question it is a sign you are believing in or dwelling in unsound doctrine. It is that simple.
History and most people will affirm that Jesus Christ was ….
A good man.
A humble man.
A popular teacher.
An influential leader.
A charismatic figure to the masses.
A prophet.
Even … A worker of miracles.
But, there was one position Jesus was not worthy to occupy according to the established religious teachers of his day and as a whole to the religions in our day:
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. John 10:33
Jesus was not worthy to occupy the highest and most exalted position of all, God and Creator of the heaven and the earth. According to the established religious hierarchy of his day he wasn’t qualified to be elevated and called the Almighty, the Everlasting Father and the Prince of Peace because only God can occupy these positions.
Well, was Jesus God? What qualifies him? The scriptures have this to say about Jesus Christ:
- The Creator of All Things (John 1:1-3, 10, Col 1:16, Heb 1:2)
- Existed in Eternity & before time (John 17:24, Col 1:17, I Peter 1:19-20)
- Has all Power & Authority (Mat 28:18, Eph 1:10, 19-22, Heb 12:2, Acts 7:55-56)
- Has the Power to Forgive Sins (Mat 9:6, Mark 2:7, Acts 26:18, Eph 1:7, Col 1:4)
- Is the Image of the Invisible God (John 14:9, 17:21-22, Heb 1:3, Rev 1:12-18)
- His Name Is Exalted Above All Others (Isa 9:6, Mat 1:21-23, Luk 1:35, Eph 5:20, Phl 2:9-10, Col 3:17, Rev 22:16)
What is your conclusion in light of these (and many other) scriptures? Is Jesus worthy to occupy the position of Almighty God?
The God I Want To Believe
Putting all controversy and debate aside let’s ask another honest question. The question is not what you believe, but which of the two would you want to believe?
Which God would you prefer to serve? One who sacrificed his only “son“, or one who sacrificed “Himself“? A God who instead of sending a proxy, He came Himself in person? Or instead of sending another He submitted himself?
Does this not make Calvary so much more poignant, and powerful? Oh, yes it does. The Creator allowed Himself to be placed into the hands of His Creation. There is no love greater than this that God Himself visited earth and laid down his own life.
Considering also this question: Would God ask of us a sacrifice that He himself would not first commit to himself? (John 6:51, 10:15-17, Rom 12:1)
God is love. God loves you. Oh, how He loves you!
Have you experienced the New Birth according to the scriptures?
John 3:1-15 & Acts 2:38
Be Blessed!
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. Acts 19:2
Messes To Masterpieces 
I see Jesus as a part of God, like a finger – capable of giving direction, or imparting knowledge – but not the entirety of God. I cannot believe that ‘The Holy Spirit” is separate from God, any more than my soul/intellect is separate from me. 😯
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The Holy Spirit of God, is His Thinking acting, His Power, and as such the Essence of God Who is an eternal all-knowing Spirit Being. Jesus is only a part of God like we are part of God, by being a created being by God (created in the image of God). God Himself declared Jesus to be His only begotten beloved son. (It is a pity so many people calling themselves Christian do not want to believe the words of God nor of the man they say they are following, namely Jesus Christ, who clearly knew he could do nothing without God who is greater than him (Jesus).
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You say Jesus is “only a part of God”.
May I ask which part when God is omnipotent, omnipresent & omniscience?
The God I’ve come to know is not fractured, shallow, mediocre nor impotent. That is the Jesus who reached down into the pit I was in and with His love & mercy delivered me.
We all see things differently & even our faith differs from one another. My intention is not to debate or generate a lot of unnecessary angst.
You have to understand Jesus was both God & man. When Jesus spoke to the wind and waves “Peace be still”, that was just not a man speaking. They were words of authority from the eternal Spirit of God speaking through him.
Colossians, 1:15 – Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
Who? Jesus.
Thanks for stopping by.
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We expressed ourselves a little bit wrongly by using a similar language you used by talking about “parts of Gdo”. Naturally Jesus is not god and not a literal part of God. Jesus is a created being of God. Jesus is namely the son of man and son of God. Being a son makes him “part of the family” or part of the House, so part of the House of God.
Jesus his God, who should also be our God is an All-knowing Spirit Being. Jesus is not a spirit being nor an all-knowing being.
You seem to take Jesus as your god instead of taking Jesus his God as your God.
Where do you get it from that Jesus was both the God and man? In case God would have come down to earth to fake His birth, temptation, torturing and death (because God cannot be tempted and has no birth and death, plus man can do the eternal God nothing) than man has no proof that man can resurrect from the death, plus it would make God in a very cruel being that told a lot of lies, like calling His other appearance His son, instead of saying that it is He Who came down to earth, and was not telling the truth when they asked Himwhen he would come back or when the end ties would come, because God knows everything, though Jesus said he did it know it because it is only given to God to know. (One of the many proofs that Jesus is not God).
God authorised Jesus to speak and act in His name. You even quote that the Spirit spoke “through him”, but seemed not to notice that.
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You raise good points. Well, We’ll let the scriptures answer our questions.
“Jesus is not a spirit being nor an all-knowing being.”
Well, we are all “spirit beings” or we would not be here communicating with one another. Mary gave birth through conception by God’s Holy Spirit (Mat 1:20). And Jesus is now in heaven sitting on the right-hand (position of power) of God (Rev. 22:13, 16)
“Where do you get it from that Jesus was both the God and man?”
Matthew 22:41-46 Jesus speaking here. What does Jesus say to the question? He says he is the root (the Creator of David) and David’s offspring (David’s son). Jesus plainly says he is both David’s creator and his offspring (Matthew 1:6, 16-17) God & Man
John 8:56-58 “Before Abraham was, I am.” Who is speaking here? A carpenter’s son or the “Son”, God manifested in flesh? God & Man
John 2:19-21 “I will raise it up.” Who will raise it up? A man? Only God can raise the dead. Luke 7:11-17
“Jesus said he did it know it because it is only given to God to know.”
In his humanity and as a humble servant, Jesus did not know all things. The same logic applies for Jesus’ need to continually pray in the Spirit to stay within the will of the Father. Jesus did not escape his cloak of humanity until his resurrection. As a man he had earthly limitations.
To give you a better answer, I went to my personal library and selected a book entitled: ‘The Almighty God In The Lord Jesus Christ’ written by Andrew D. Urshan.
Opening the book at random the first opened page said this: “This confirms the saying of our Lord: ‘No man knows the Father save the Son, and He to whomsoever the Son will reveal Him.’ In this Scripture our Lord limits the revelation and the manifestation of the Father to that which is made in and through Himself. Therefore, the Son is a great mystery, as is the Father” (Mat 11:27).
The Godhead is a mystery. But, the scripture tells that the fulness of Godhead dwells bodily in Jesus Christ (Col 2:9)
Friend, the only God you will ever see will be in Jesus.
Let me explain it this way as I’ve often thought about these same points you are bringing up. This is the best way I can explain it.
Let’s say you are in your bathroom and there is a cabinet on the wall with a mirrored door. Now you open the door so your face is reflected in the mirror. At that moment your son happens to walk into the bathroom. Upon looking at both you and the mirror simultaneously what will he see?
Your son will see two identical images, your face and your reflection. But, there is only one you. This is how Jesus co-existed simultaneously in time and in eternity as Father (Eternal Spirit) and Son (human flesh).
The mirror is the Word of God (Logos) as the light (the Eternal Spirit of God) reflects your face/image (Jesus Christ) on it. However, there is only one person!
I wrote this thought in my journal just over 2 years. Thank you for allowing me to share it with someone.
If none of this addresses your points I have at least made a honest attempt in some small way to clarify the Oneness of God. Hope this helps.
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You say yourself “Jesus is now in heaven sitting on the right-hand (position of power) of God (Rev. 22:13, 16)” though you take him to be God and as such God would be sitting not next to Himself but on His Own throne.
Jesus nowhere say he is says he is the Creator of David. Jesus asked the Pharisees what they thought about the Messiah and whose son he would be.
They knew it was the son of David, meaning an offshoot or some one in line, being born after Kingd David. So Jesus as the son of David did not exist before David, though he was already spoken about long before Abraham was born, hence Jesus was already before Abraham, like you too were already written in the book of life or in the book of death. (But you nor I did exist before Abraham, even when I have seen Abraham already – that being a normal expression, which you do not seem to have in your language or do not understand.
£After being resurrected and been taken into heaven Jesus got to sit, like it was prophesied, next to God His right hand. Notice it does nowhere in the Bible say that Jesus would take place on the throne of God.
“21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. 22 And when they heard it, they marvelled, and left him, and went away. 23 ¶ On that day there came to him Sadducees, {1 } they that say that there is no resurrection: and they asked him, {1) Many ancient authorities read saying }24 saying, Teacher, Moses said, {1 } If a man die, having no children, his brother {2 } shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. {1) De 25:5. 2) Gr shall perform the duty of a husband’s brother to his wife }25 Now there were with us seven brethren: and the first married and deceased, and having no seed left his wife unto his brother; 26 in like manner the second also, and the third, unto the {1 } seventh. {1) Gr seven }27 And after them all, the woman died. 28 In the resurrection therefore whose wife shall she be of the seven? for they all had her. 29 But Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. 30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as angels {1 } in heaven. {1) Many ancient authorities add of God }31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, 32 {1 } I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. {1) Ex 3:6 }33 And when the multitudes heard it, they were astonished at his teaching. 34 ¶ But the Pharisees, when they heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, gathered themselves together. 35 And one of them, a lawyer, asked him a question, trying him: 36 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 And he said unto him, {1 } Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. {1) De 6:5 }38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 {1 } And a second like unto it is this, {2 } Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. {1) Or And a second is like unto it, Thou shalt love etc 2) Le 19:18 }40 On these two commandments the whole law hangeth, and the prophets. 41 ¶ Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42 saying, What think ye of the Christ? whose son is he? They say unto him, The son of David. 43 He saith unto them, How then doth David in the Spirit call him Lord, saying, 44 {1 } The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Till I put thine enemies underneath thy feet? {1) Ps 110:1 }45 If David then calleth him Lord, how is he his son? 46 And no one was able to answer him a word, neither durst any man from that day forth ask him any more questions.” (Mt 22:21-46 ASV)
You also seem to forget following verses and sayings of Christ.
“ Ye heard how I said to you, I go away, and I come unto you. If ye loved me, ye would have rejoiced, because I go unto the Father: for the Father is greater than I.” (Joh 14:28 ASV)
“ Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father doing: for what things soever he doeth, these the Son also doeth in like manner.” (Joh 5:19 ASV)
“ But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.” (1Co 11:3 ASV)
The same as you are forgetting that Jesus is going to hand over the Kingdom to his heavenly Father.
“ And when all things have been subjected unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subjected to him that did subject all things unto him, that God may be all in all.” (1Co 15:28 ASV)
Concerning Jesus doing things you also seem to forget he got authorised to speak but also act in the name of God. It stays always like it always has been God doing or allowing things to happen. Jesus was just the go-between or mediator. Jesus is still the mediator between God. You think he is God but than he cannot be the mediator between God and man.
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” Jesus is still the mediator between God. You think he is God but than he cannot be the mediator between God and man.”
One thing to remember, the Sonship is temporary. It was never intended to be permanent. Jesus’ role as the Son, the Savior of mankind will end when God decides the church age, the dispensation of grace we are now living in, is over. Then judgment will come.
Read I Cor 15:24-27 & I Cor 13:8-10
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“So Jesus as the son of David did not exist before David..”
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. John 8:58
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In case Jesu sis the all-knowing God, do you not see that he must be aliar, because Jesus says he does not know when the end times come. Though that is a very important period for mankind. Not willing to tell us when Armageddon shall come though when he very well knows it is very cruel. God also tells us He cannot be tempted though the Bible tells us Jesus was tempted more than once. either god is a liar or Jesus is not God and when God declares Jesus to be His only begotten beloved son God tells the truth.
If a boss of a bank at the desk, acting as bank clerk sells you share telling you they are the best ones to earn money, an a few days later you loose all your money. You going back to the bank and than the director saying to you; “Oh that was my son and not me” would you accept that? If the bankmanager knew this drop of the shares would happen would you accept it when the clerk would say ‘I do not know” or “I did not know”? when they are one and the same person, the clerk say “he could not know” though the boss very well knowing it, you would call him a liar, would you not?
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Your points got my attention and made me dig into this. Glad you brought these points up as my response to you got too involved. So, there is a new post entitled “One Thing God Will Never Tell You” to address Jesus’ perceived lack of knowledge.
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Jesus was not invisible, though God is invisible. Many saw Jesus but did not fall death. Though man can not see God and live.
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Yet, Jesus could make himself invisible – on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24:13-16)
and Luke 4:28-30.
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You seem to forget that was after he was taken out of the dead by his heavenly Father. By the resurrection Jesus became the firstborn of the New World.
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It took some while where we would have got the part of God but that was in reply of Archon’s Den who wrote “I see Jesus as a part of God, like a finger –”
Jesus is the one God has given the world. It is the promised one, the prophesied one who has become a reality. As such Jesus is the promise of God and our blessing from God. Only by the acceptance of God of the ransom offering of Jesus could the grace of salvation come over us.
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Archon’s Den – you state well that the ‘Holy Spirit’ cannot be sperate from God any more than you
can say your spirit is sperate from yourself.
That being said, Mary being overshadowed and by the Holy Ghost (Spirit of God), which resulted in
conceiving and giving birth to Jesus, then what spirit was in Jesus Christ? A separate spirit from
someplace else or did the Eternal Spirit of God reside in him?
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As you say “there is nothing in this life more important to God than the saving of the soul.” To come to such saving we should first of all believe in the Divine Creator God Who is One and not three.
Jesus was a Jew who believed in only One God, the God of Abraham who is the God of Israel, an eternal Spirit Being no man can see.
It was not God Himself i”n human flesh at Calvary”. God can not die, but the one who died was a son of man, whom god declared to be His only begotten beloved son. That is what everybody should come to believe; That it is the son of God who put his own will aside to do the will of God. In case Jesus is God than he would always have done his own will and the will of God, except if he would have done the will of other people.
A Oneness believer shold be some one who believe we all should become one with Christ and with God like Jesus wants us to be one with him, like he is one with his heavenly Father, it is being one in thought or one of mind. It does not mean to be one and the same person. The request of Jesus to be one with him like he is one with the father shall not make us to become Jesus nor to become God.
You seem to mix the sayings in the Bible about God and about Jesus. (It would demand more writing to show your wrong assumptions about words -the above mentioned verses- so called indicating that Jesus would be God°.
We can only hope and pray that you one day shall come to see that Jesus is the way to God. That Jesus is the sent one from God, who is the door to the kingdom of God, where Jesus is sitting on the throne next to God, being a high priest for God and acting as a mediator between God and man.
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A lot of thinking going on here.
Ultimately, it is the Word that reveals truth because as Jesus said, his word is truth John 17:17.
Colossians, 1:17 – And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Colossians, 1:18 – And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
Colossians, 1:19 – For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
Jesus was dual-natured. By being human he did not compromise his diety and by being God Jesus did not compromise his humanity.
Thanks for taking time to read & comment.
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You’ve raised some intriguing questions here, David.
“If you are a believer in the Trinity you will say it was God’s Son, the second person of the Trinity, whom the Father “sent” to die for the sins of all mankind. Jesus Christ was one of three persons, a proxy if you will, sent to save souls from the curse of sin.
A Oneness believer will answer the question differently. A Oneness believer will not say Jesus Christ is one person of three, a proxy, or God’s perfect, yet detached sacrifice for sin. A Oneness believer will say Jesus Christ is the manifestation of the One Holy God enrobed in flesh, the physical manifestation of the true, living God.”
I claim to believe in a “triune” God, where three parts make one (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), but my beliefs about the resurrection fall more in line with the “Oneness” believer in this case. It would seem that my beliefs go in both directions. I need to chew on your points in this post.
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Your response is a lot like other’s who say they are Trinitarian, but actually see Jesus as One with God and not three Lily.
I am by far not an expert on the theology of the Trinity. But, we need to allow the scriptures to speak for themselves, and along with God’s Spirit, reveal to our hearts truth.
I’ve known of others using the analogy of water to explain the mystery. Water exists in three physical phases – water, liquid & gas, but they are all One and the same.
This is the major point of the post – the difference between the two schools of thought & the impact they have on how we view the cross. Who was crucified on the cross at Calvary?
As always Lily, your passion for the Lord is commendable. And thank you for taking the time to think these things out!
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Yes those who would be “Oneness” believers would understand being one as being one in mine and God being Only One and not two or three. Unitarians or non-Trinitarians adhere the same God as Jesus worshipped. Jesus did not pray to himself and certainly did not ask himself why he would have abandoned himself. That is something a person, even not a schizophrenic can do.
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In case Jesus is God, why did he wait so long before making an end to the curse of death, and after faking his death (because God cannot die)why does He let us suffer still?
Those who take Jesus as their God make Jesus his action as something of no value, because then God would always have know He would still be alive and well, because no man can do something to Him. Plus that Jesus would always have done his own will, though Jesus says clearly “not my will but yours will be done”. Trinitarians also make a liar of God, because at certain times God says He knows everything and at other points he (as Jesus) says he does not know it, even such important things as when the end times shall come and who would be seated next to him.
They also make of God a very cruel being, having mankind suffering form thousands of years before performing his act, and after all that theatrical years, still having people to suffer so much and letting them wait in the unknown when He would again fake His appearance as son to 1000 years later again present an other act as God.
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Wow. I have just come across your blog tonight, and I have to say, I am just as thrilled as I can be. You make points that I see and hear VERY FEW PEOPLE make, but that need to be shouted from the rooftops “for such a time as this.”
I am new to the Oneness faith. As in, found the way about 3-4 years ago. But it seems there was always that gnawing inside that something in the churches I was attending way back then, just weren’t true! Furthermore, as I began to truly dig and search the Scriptures (on my own, long before finding the Church we now attend), I often found myself sitting with my mouth hanging open, and more than one I would remark to my husband, “You know that thing we’ve believed all our lives? Well, according to this, it’s just not true!” Even these days, I’m still finding that to be true.
I’ve always been the quiet, introverted sort. Never one to argue with anyone because I was brought up to believe that simply wasn’t “proper.” However, I am currently of the mind that contending for the faith is the responsibility of a believer. Praise God. I’m so very thankful to have been found by Him! And to also find your blog!
God bless you richly!
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Thank you so much Stacey. Honestly, my spirit has been troubled since posting this because I know it would offend most of the folks who follow my blog.
But, quite frankly, this ‘message’ or thought is something the Lord has impressed on my heart for several months and finally decided to do it.
As one writer penned it: “If I displease God, does it matter who I please? If I please God, does it matter who I displease?”
If the only person it touches is you, well Praise God, it was worth it all.
You don’t know how much your reaction has encouraged me and I am the one (at least according to my blog’s byline) who is supposed to be doing the encouraging!
Keep seeking His face Stacey. He is calling us ALL to a deeper place and only we ultimately decide how deep we want to go. Blessings!
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Amen! Getting out of the boat, so to speak, can be hard. But you know, that same timid man that DID get out of the boat went on to tell those that demanded he no longer preach in the Name of Jesus , basically, “I would much rather obey God than men.” And of course, throughout Scripture, we are given many examples of how that will be frowned upon by those in the flesh ❤ Yes, where the rubber meets the road, there will surely be offense (I have a very "offensive" post sitting in my drafts right now lol), but the Author and Finisher of our faith has us in the palm of His hand, hallelujah! I'm looking forward to reading more of your content, and thank you for such a response as this. Keep doing what you do, brother.
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Indeed. Jesus is coming very soon. The incident with Iran 2 weeks ago could have initiated the beginning stages of the tribulation. It’s only God riches in grace & mercy that he impressed upon the President to abort the military attack. These things are not coincidental.
As you say, the Lord is in control and knows everything that is going on. Blessings!
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Truth!
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Fellow oneness believer here. Good post! The doctrine of the Trinity, in all its forms, is unintelligible due to the logical contradictions contained therein.
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Thanks for stopping by!
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I think you are in error here, in distinguishing between Oneness and Trinity. Christ repeatedly referred to the Father. But the Third Person of the Trinity is no less God than God the Father. “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1: 1). That the human mind has difficulty comprehending the reality of three Persons in One God merely reflects it limitations. We are finite; God is not.
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Appreciate your comments Anna. But, one fact is indisputable, the Apostles believed in One God. The Trinity was instituted over 300 years after Jesus’ resurrection.
You have to admit there are two major “camps” (if you will) in Christianity, Trinity and Oneness. Regarding your statement about Jesus referring to “the Father” can be explained by Jesus’ God-man nature. Yes, he spoke as the Son of God (flesh) when speaking TO the Eternal spirit.
But, Jesus also spoke as the Father (as you point out in John 1:1) when he rebuked the wind and sea AS the Eternal spirit : “Peace be still”. That had the heads of the disciples spinning as they asked, ” What manner Of Man is this that even the wind and the Sea obey him”!
Your opinion is yours and is respected. Always enjoy reading your posts! Take Care.
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Hi, Anna. David isn’t in error at all. The Doctrine of the Trinity (DT), in all its forms (yes, there are multiple versions of it today), entails logical contradictions and cannot, therefore, be true under any rational standard. Said doctrine is not merely “difficult” to comprehend; it is IMPOSSIBLE to comprehend because it is the logical equivalent of married bachelor. The positive affirmations of the DT cancel each other which render it unintelligible.
If logical contradictions are true, then the inversion of everything the Bible teaches is also true (God exists, God doesn’t exist; adultery is sin, adultery isn’t sin, etc.). Since contradictions cannot be true, then the DT cannot be true. It is therefore, on its own terms, disqualified as a template for biblical interpretation.
If you believe, otherwise, then please describe for us just what the “Trinity” is and why it is different from tritheism.
Thanks, in advance.
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